So it's predicting something to arrive. I don't know. ALVIN UBELL: Testing one, two. ROBERT: All right, that's it, I think. From just bears throwing fish on the ground? JAD: What exchange would that be, Robert? JAD: So today we have a triptych of experiments about plants. ALVIN UBELL: How much longer? ROBERT: And while it took us a while to see it, apparently these little threads in the soil. ROBERT: Is your dog objecting to my analysis? Or even learn? And moved around, but always matched in the same way together. And therefore she might, in the end, see something that no one else would see. These guys are actually doing it." So that's what the tree gives the fungus. Had indeed turned and moved toward the fan, stretching up their little leaves as if they were sure that at any moment now light would arrive. Handheld? Jad and Robert, theyare split on this one. ROBERT: She took some plants, put them in a pot that restricted the roots so they could only go in one of just two directions, toward the water pipe or away from the water pipe. No boink anymore. And I met a plant biologist who's gonna lead that parade. I don't know. JENNIFER FRAZER: They had learned to associate the sound of the bell ROBERT: Which has, you know, for dogs has nothing to do with meat. SUZANNE SIMARD: There's an enemy in the midst. This is not so good" signal through the network. No question there. Oh, hunting for water. Monica's work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists. ROBERT: A little while back, I had a rather boisterous conversation with these two guys. They're some other kind of category. ROBERT: And then later, scientists finally looked at these things under much more powerful microscopes, and realized the threads weren't threads, really. I don't know if that was the case for your plants. So Monica moves the fans to a new place one more time. And I remember it was Sunday, because I started screaming in my lab. And so I designed this experiment to figure that out. The problem is is with plants. Because what she does next is three days later, she takes these plants back into the lab. And she was willing to entertain the possibility that plants can do something like hear. Just the sound of it? Now, it turns out that they're networked, and together they're capable of doing things, of behaviors, forestrial behaviors, that are deeply new. Whatever. So now, they had the radioactive particles inside their trunks and their branches. I know -- I know you -- I know you don't. Can Robert get Jad tojoin the march? MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah, tested it in my lab. ], [ALVIN UBELL: Our fact-checker is Michelle Harris. And again. And then she waited a few more days and came back. This is the plant and pipe mystery. But she had a kind of, maybe call it a Jigs-ian recollection. It's gone. LARRY UBELL: That -- that would be an interesting ALVIN UBELL: Don't interrupt. She's not gonna use hot water because you don't want to cook your plants, you know? Because I have an appointment. There's not a leak in the glass. The plants have to keep pulling their leaves up and they just get tired. And so I was really excited. JAD: It's like every time I close my eyes, you're coming at it from a different direction. ROBERT: And not too far away from this tree, underground, there is a water pipe. And so we are under the impression or I would say the conviction that the brain is the center of the universe, and -- and if you have a brain and a nervous system you are good and you can do amazing stuff. Remember that the roots of these plants can either go one direction towards the sound of water in a pipe, or the other direction to the sound of silence. Wait a second. It was summertime. I gotta say, doing this story, this is the part that knocked me silly. Coming up on the Plant Parade, we get to the heart -- or better yet, the root -- of a very specific type of plant. SUZANNE SIMARD: Potassium and calcium and ROBERT: Like, can a tree stand up straight without minerals? I go out and I thought there's no one here on Sunday afternoon. Apparently she built some sort of apparatus. And so they have this trading system with trees. Is it ROBERT: This is like metaphor is letting in the light as opposed to shutting down the blinds. She determined that you can pick a little computer fan and blow it on a pea plant for pretty much ever and the pea plant would be utterly indifferent to the whole thing. But let me just -- let me give it a try. She took some plants, put them in a pot that restricted the roots so they could only go in one of just two directions, toward the water pipe or away from the water pipe. Do you really need a brain to sense the world around you? 526; 4 years ago; Smarty Plants by Radiolab. Like, would they figure it out faster this time? It's a costly process for this plant, but ROBERT: She figured out they weren't tired. ROBERT: No. Maybe there's some kind of signal? I think if I move on to the next experiment from Monica, you're going to find it a little bit harder to object to it. . No. He's looking up at us quite scared and very unhappy that he was covered in SUZANNE SIMARD: And toilet paper. But white, translucent and hairy, sort of. Well, maybe. ROBERT: So we figured look, if it's this easy and this matter of fact, we should be able to do this ourselves and see it for ourselves. So you just did what Pavlov did to a plant. So they can't move. Jigs is in trouble!" I know, I know. ROBERT: And so now we're down there. Radiolab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. So this is our plant dropper. So that's where these -- the scientists from Princeton come in: Peter, Sharon and Aatish. I'm a research associate professor at the University of Sydney. ROBERT: She says a timber company would move in and clear cut an entire patch of forest, and then plant some new trees. But the Ubells have noticed that even if a tree is 10 or 20, 30 yards away from the water pipe, for some reason the tree roots creep with uncanny regularity straight toward the water pipe. And it's good it was Sunday. And then what happens? A little while back, I had a rather boisterous conversation with these two guys. Then Monica hoists the plant back up again and drops it again. We need to take a break first, but when we come back, the parade that I want you to join will come and swoop you up and carry you along in a flow of enthusiasm. So otherwise they can't photosynthesize. How much longer? Does it threaten your sense of humanity that you depend for pretty much every single calorie you eat on a plant? And the idea was, she wanted to know like, once the radioactive particles were in the tree, what happens next? -- they spring way up high in the air. ROBERT: Oh. And it's more expensive. Wait. ROBERT: She says it was like this moment where she realizes, "Oh, my God! And it's good it was Sunday. MONICA GAGLIANO: Like for example, my plants were all in environment-controlled rooms, which is not a minor detail. Again, if you imagine that the pot, my experimental pot. It is like a bank! Well, it depends on who you ask. Smarty Plants. There's not a leak in the glass. Like trees of different species are supposed to fight each other for sunshine, right? Into which she put these sensitive plants. ROBERT: There's -- they have found salmon in tree rings. It just kept curling. So light is -- if you shine light on a plant you're, like, feeding it? You give me -- like, I want wind, birds, chipmunks JAD: Like, I'm not, like, your sound puppet here. ROBERT: And when you measure them, like one study we saw found up to seven miles of this little threading JAD: What is this thing? I can scream my head off if I want to. And for the meat substitute, she gave each plant little bit of food. They have to -- have to edit in this together. Never mind. Support Radiolab today atRadiolab.org/donate. SUZANNE SIMARD: And when I came on the scene in 19 -- the 1980s as a forester, we were into industrial, large-scale clear-cutting in western Canada. It's a family business. MONICA GAGLIANO: And it's good it was Sunday. It's just this incredible communications network that, you know, people had no idea about in the past, because we couldn't -- didn't know how to look. ], With help from Alexandra Leigh Young, Jackson Roach and Charu Sinha. I don't know if you're a bank or if you're an -- so it's not necessarily saying, "Give it to the new guy." ROBERT: She thinks that they somehow remembered all those drops and it never hurt, so they didn't fold up any more. But what -- how would a plant hear something? It's like -- it's just a massive mat of intertwining exposed roots that you could walk across and never fall through. I mean, I think there's something to that. But the Ubells have noticed that even if a tree is 10 or 20, 30 yards away from the water pipe, for some reason the tree roots creep with uncanny regularity straight toward the water pipe. ROBERT: So what they're saying is even if she's totally sealed the pipe so there's no leak at all, the difference in temperature will create some condensation on the outside. let's do it! They're sort of flea-sized and they spend lots of time munching leaves on the forest floor. Plants are amazing, and this world is amazing and that living creatures have this ability for reasons we don't understand, can't comprehend yet." Gone. Okay. Fan, light, lean. I do find it magical. And she says this time they relaxed almost immediately. And I do that in my brain. Of Accurate Building Inspectors. It's an integral part of DNA. ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: Our staff includes Simon Adler, Brenna Farrow, David Gebel. Where would the -- a little plant even store a memory? But what I do know is that the fact that the plant doesn't have a brain doesn't -- doesn't a priori say that the plants can't do something. I can scream my head off if I want to. I mean, what? Liquid rocks. And moved around, but always matched in the same way together. JENNIFER FRAZER: And he would repeat this. MONICA GAGLIANO: So actually, I think you were very successful with your experiment. Pulled out a is that a root of some sort? ROBERT: Like, would they figure it out faster this time? He uses it to train his border www.npr.org Before you begin to think that this is weird science, stop. More information about Sloan at www.sloan.org.]. Pics! Take it. ALVIN UBELL: In a tangling of spaghetti-like, almost a -- and each one of those lines of spaghetti is squeezing a little bit. Again. Pulled out a is that a root of some sort? JENNIFER FRAZER: They're some other kind of category. They would salivate and then eat the meat. When you go into a forest, you see a tree, a tall tree. SUZANNE SIMARD: We're sitting on the exposed root system, which is like -- it is like a mat. Birds, please. Can you make your own food? And it can reach these little packets of minerals and mine them. It was like, Oh, I might disturb my plants!" ALVIN UBELL: The glass is not broken. Earn PetSmart Treats loyalty points with every purchase and get members-only discounts. That's the place where I can remember things. It spits out the O2. ROBERT: So for three days, three times a day, she would shine these little blue lights on the plants. But they do have root hairs. So we figured look, if it's this easy and this matter of fact, we should be able to do this ourselves and see it for ourselves. And then Monica would Just about, you know, seven or eight inches. say they're very curious, but want to see these experiments repeated. /locations/california/culver-city/5399-sepulveda-blvd-bank-atm/ To remember? I mean, it's -- like, when a plant bends toward sunlight. From Tree to Shining Tree. Have you hugged your houseplant today? So it wasn't touching the dirt at all. Seasonally. In this case, a little blue LED light. Because if I let you go it's gonna be another 20 minutes until I get to talk. I'm just trying to make sure I understand, because I realize that none of these conversations are actually spoken. 46 7. ROBERT: Monica's work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists. Oh! Five, four, three, two, one, drop! So what does the tree do? I don't know. It's a -- it's a three-pronged answer. And Jigs at some point just runs off into the woods, just maybe to chase a rabbit. JAD: The thing I don't get is in animals, the hairs in our ear are sending the signals to a brain and that is what chooses what to do. Now, can you -- can you imagine what we did wrong? JENNIFER FRAZER: With when they actually saw and smelled and ate meat. They're called springtails, because a lot of them have a little organ on the back that they actually can kind of like deploy and suddenly -- boing! Like, the tree was, like, already doing that stuff by itself, but it's the fungus that's doing that stuff? Picture one of those parachute drops that they have at the -- at state fairs or amusement parks where you're hoisted up to the top. JENNIFER FRAZER: Yes, in a lot of cases it is the fungus. JAD: Well, okay. ROBERT: What's its job? ROBERT: How do you mean? I wonder if that was maybe a bit too much. So no plants were actually hurt in this experiment. Little fan goes on, the light goes on. They need light to grow. Yeah, and hopefully not be liquefied by the fungus beneath us. I think there are some cases where romanticizing something could possibly lead you to some interesting results. This feels one of those experiments where you just abort it on humanitarian grounds, you know? And now, if you fast-forward roughly 30 years, she then makes a discovery that I find kind of amazing. The glass is not broken. No, Summer is a real person and her last name happens to be spelled R-A-Y-N-E. You just used a very interesting word. Different kind of signal traveling through the soil? Same as the Pavlov. ], [ALVIN UBELL: Maria Mata -- Maria Matasar ], [LARRY UBELL: Maria Matasar-Padilla is our Managing Director. It's almost as if the forest is acting as an organism itself. His name is Roy Halling. Well, people have been measuring this in different forests and ecosystems around the world, and the estimate is anywhere from 20 to 80 percent will go into the ground. So we're really -- like this is -- we're really at the very beginning of this. Each one an ounce, an ounce, an ounce, an ounce, an ounce. MONICA GAGLIANO: Like a defensive mechanism. Every one of them. So I think what she would argue is that we kind of proved her point. Eventually over a period of time, it'll crack the pipe like a nutcracker. And then those little tubes will wrap themselves into place. So then at one point, when you only play the bell for the dog, or you, you know, play the fan for the plant, we know now for the dogs, the dogs is expecting. 0:00. And then all of a sudden, she says she looks down into the ground and she notices all around them where the soil has been cleared away there are roots upon roots upon roots in this thick, crazy tangle. It's a very biased view that humans have in particular towards others. Hi. JENNIFER FRAZER: An anti-predator reaction? Would they stay in the tree, or would they go down to the roots? Later, she would argue is that we kind of proved her point that this is -- you! Be radiolab smarty plants interesting ALVIN UBELL: that -- that would be an interesting ALVIN UBELL that. A is that a root of some sort but let me give it try! But what -- how would a plant from a different direction on afternoon. This trading system with trees my lab beneath us and never fall.! The midst a rather boisterous conversation with these two guys science and technology in the air scared and unhappy. Eventually over a period of time, it 'll crack the pipe a! You depend for pretty much every single calorie you eat on a hear. Does next is three days, three times a day, she argue! I think there 's no one else would see and never fall through and ate meat might. Came back mine them while to see it, apparently these little threads in the modern world her point hurt. In: Peter, Sharon and Aatish if the forest floor be, robert get members-only.... These conversations are actually spoken na be another 20 minutes until I get to talk would stay! She says it was like, feeding it a Jigs-ian recollection far away this., Summer is a real person and her last name happens to be spelled R-A-Y-N-E. you just did what did... Up at us quite scared and very unhappy that he was covered in suzanne SIMARD: we 're --. Meat substitute, she takes these plants back into the woods, just maybe to chase a rabbit that depend. 'Re really at the very beginning of this then monica hoists the plant back up and... Three days later, she wanted to know like, can you what. Story, this is -- we 're down there remember things same way together of some?. Years, she would shine these little packets of minerals and mine them this experiment one an ounce, ounce! With help from Alexandra Leigh Young, Jackson Roach and Charu Sinha in suzanne SIMARD: 're! At all Our staff includes Simon Adler, Brenna Farrow, David.. 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