The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. King Tigers are too slow and obvious to really bother with going for caps, and their armor isn't reliable enough to use as a spearhead for an attack. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. And the overwhelming sense of hopelessness when the enemy team finds outhowithappened, that moment alone is to die for. Well you know what they say, the turtle always wins. Not if you hang back in a position that overlooks the objective beforehand, you then can in fact ambush them as they try to cap as you'll know exactly where they'll show up and the M18 won't have a clue about your whereabouts. I've recently been having a bad time grinding in German jet battles, and I feel like my grind is somewhat pointless. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Not being able to be constructive in any way seems key to yourself. This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. But be aware of your week side armour. I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. Theoretically you can kill a Leopard probably even with KV1, it is just much easier to do so by suddenly appearing at a place where no one expects you at that time and this works the best with a fast vehicle. the Jumboturret. - East Germany suffers! According to this complaint, Germany's mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. Pretty much initiallybut when you do this often enough you'll start to see a pattern and this will narrow your choices downquite a bit and increase your chances of success, it can be slow sometimes but that's the nature of hunting. Walter Dorn. Just an endemic lack of knowledge of what assets are available to the Germans, 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Hardly an advantage. The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). The Panthers' reverse situation is one that's not terribly extraordinary because poor reverse speed is a commonplace of many tanks--particularly those of the British. I have to say that this thread's OP is pretty much THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. If an M18 is careening down a street and a Panther materializes at the end of it and takes a shotit's not going to be a good day for the M18. In Panther? Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. As a bad player I would say that German ground vehicles require a lot of patience to play effectively. So don't play into his game, your typical player basereallygets a kick out of surprises. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. Clearly you haven't seen Gaijin's big maps from afar before. Done. Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. What? buy panzer ii amp luchs the world war ii If you pen hull, his gun is still operational and he just shoots you. It should be 6.7 or 7.0 at best. A COMMENTARY ON THE BOOK OF LEVITICUS - Bonar. That ammo should not be stock! Also we know the stories about the feared King Tigerpacks who slowly roam the map and suddenly appear in your rear. No he won't hide/wait in a fast boi,he'll drive to your side of the map to look for you if you keep him waiting. He usually has like 5 different options. It would actually give Germany some nice, War Thunder map friendly brawling options, like T-34's, IS-2's, T-54's, as well as some lower BR MBT's with decent armour, like T-55's, T-72's etc. I don't think the hull of the king tiger is worse, it's obviously better, I'm just saying it's not better by a huge margin. Usually it's the other way around, the M18 waits around for a target and looks around corners with the third person view camera. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44-100. He can get to cap first and setup an ambush. pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. Especially when you get uptiered to 7.7. history projects. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. AMX-13 10k REPAIR SILVER? - He will go around you (most maps allow that) and pop up in you rear. The Arado B-2 has a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy to pull up out of a dive attack. Once he has spotted you, you are basically dead. Removing the Panther II made sense if the game was aiming for historical accuracy. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. If we're going to go with just the general platitudes then it's kind of a boring discussion that you would clearly be winning if we don't take a deeper look at the issues with German mobility other than "keeping pace", whatever that means. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. What I don't get is the selective nature of it (hidden slope modifiers, HEAT-FS nerf). And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. they're glass cannons. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. This is especially visible while on 6.7 when vehicles of the same tier can lol pen Tiger II upf. #15. They've been in the game for years so to state that they've dropped off the face of the earth is anything but true. This works both ways, ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided. panzer ii light tank military history. I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. The third point can be solved simply by accepting what everyone accepts when they go to the cap--the "welp, gotta head in there" feeling. But the T34doesn't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger 2 h 10.5 does. However there were so many german prototypes that could have taken it's place. If you liked it, feel free to sub. My guess, this is the reason some players dont like the Panther, because you can not get out of trouble fast. Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. Are there no third positions or one that is at least more pragmatic? Canon CAS is quite strong if left unchecked. This trend follows most nations and Germany is no exception. Ok, so you don't agree that it is easier to flank with small and fast vehicles? On paper there is no logical reason why Germany shouldn't be doing much better than these nations which have worse line ups and fight the same threats. That's your personal preference. This is still a pretty hard shot to hit as there are still trolly double thick parts and the breech often absorbs 88s without them having time to fuse, resulting in no crew deaths). This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be at that point. For special purposes I still have my Ju-288 with its two SC1600 bombs. And I'll give you the T29 it was worthy of 7.0 but if your gonna sit here and argue the T34/30 are suddenly worthy of 7.0 you have a biased opinion. Are there plans to restructure the the air br system or decomress the br. It takes longer to aim for weak spot, than the Tiger II stopping and just point at your silhouette. Even more so Germany can not pair with britain, which means only one side will be receiving the death by thousand stabilized needles.USA brings a ton of HEATFS that chew through the Tiger II UPF. You have the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long as you don't hit the tracks. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. The Germany newbies will complain that their chosen tank sucks and the Germany veterans are in their meta premiums taking out entire enemy teams. As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. However, due to WT map design, with most maps being rather small and generally favouring brawling, this advantage is often countered by the allies more versatile vehicles. In an uptier when being met by a T54. that's it. at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. When I review the player profiles of those in the matches I am in, I commonly find such single nation players are the ones who struggle the most. encyclopedia. If you would have told me you hit the outsides of the turret face no real angling makes it any flatter than what it is. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. Germany doesn't suffer at all, just a load of the players are awful and don't know how to angle a tiger etc. How is this true for any vehicles? Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. And the T series has a thick turret but the tiger 2 has a better hull. Panther APCR should have the historical ~260mm of pen instead of the laughable 228mm of pen in-game, and so on. Side turret of T__ is also twice as thick as king tiger so it's less vulnerable to flanking. Most american team comps I see are at least 80% heavy tanks but they get away with it because their heavies can actually reliably bounce shots. If mobility was all that mattered, everyone would be driving around in M18s, M2A4s, A13s, BT-5s and R3s at every BRand yet they dont. Sit in cover, spot an enemy in third person, pop out, shoot and repeat. What will you bring? In tier III and IV gameplay bombs are not really needed to take out allied tanks. Whether a not a tank has the "better tools" is entirely up to user and how they'd like to use them. However there comes the real germany suffers thing. I almost never see the Swedish Centurion, no matter playing on or against British team. Those things are a really easy kill as long as you see them first. I haven't had a single game with Germany either on the same or enemy team without there being a single puma. Well one or two not that much but a bit more and flying becomes more problematic. That advice is not about any narrative, its about the best way around that shortcoming. 2. It is really frustrating when we can't have any machine guns on top of the panzers period. While true a slower tank doesn'tneed totravel very far to find a position that overlooks the positions one wouldplan on exploiting so by the time the fast tanks shows up the slow tankis waiting in its position ready to fire as the fast tank usually has to travel across half the map and the slow tank only has to travel a quarter of the map or less to counter. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. According to this complaint, Germanys mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. lol Germany (especially around the BR you're playing at) has literally some of the most insanely OP lineups in the game - packed with tanks / SPAA / CAS spam vehicles with mostly low spawn costs. Let me repeat that. Probably you should just Okha the last bomb into the target, cause rearming takes too long anyways. Stepping forward progressively is how I use(d) my poor reversing tanks and the Panthers were among them (the British were the biggest group though). This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. Internal mods of higher tier vehicles are more durable, sometimes not even the engine starts burning if you shot a shell into the back of an rank 4 enemy. Are there plans to move overpowered vehicles (like Xp-50 or Su-11) to a more reasonable br rating? Lets assume competent players who don't gamble. Also the air tech tree actually is borderline OP too. The basic problem with this grievance is that people figure they need to have a vehicle as fast as their enemies to win--you dont. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. Most of the time they use their speed to cap the mid point rather than setting up a scouting position. Not so long ago, when the update was released, I made a post that currently has over 3000 views . Better late then never, only took them 5 years to catch up. The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. One thing to mention is that german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7, it's the stabilized brit APDS ATGM throwers and impenetrable american T__ heavy tanks that really hurt. By observation, I guess, a lot of players dont do this. How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? Which means all you need to do is spot him first, then he's basically done for. They have large gun built on small and light chassis, so the weight of the gun makes it bounce after braking. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. Only if you let him, if you did the smart thing you will set the rules of engagement and battleground long before they even considered such a thing. That's your personal preference. King tiger turret is just a big flat sheet of 185mm armor. Spitfires can see the issue. Long range eliminations tend to be how I foil most of the cappers I kill. Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. I want to see where you are shooting and with what cause even when i play the AMX M4 which has 215mm of pen btw I've never bounced off the side of a T series tank. I'd recommend not making part of the argument then to begin with, The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. There is big IF in virtually every of your arguments. The M18's like any vehicle that doesn't get shot. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. More to the point, your initial comment is THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. 1 Description 2 General info 2.1 Survivability and armour 2.2 Mobility 2.3 Modifications and economy 3 Armaments 3.1 Main armament 3.1.1 Ammunition 3.1.2 Ammo racks 3.2 Machine guns 4 Usage in battles 4.1 Pros and cons 5 History 6 Media 7 See also 8 External links Description War Thunder > General Discussions > Topic Details dungeon eagle, gungeon ant Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:26pm germany suffers panther at 5.7 (it should be higher) Last edited by dungeon eagle, gungeon ant ; Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:52pm The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question. It's not a perfect strategy as it weakens the cheeks, but I've had a lot of smart american players turn their turret at the last second for an easy bounce. The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X--almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. (If you can tell us, ofc I understand you might not be able to.) Also, let's not forget that Germany has a proper line-up of SPAAs till 8.0, if you discount the gap between 6.7 and 8.0, so 1.3BR gap. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. People wildly overstate the extent of this. Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. .50 CALs are overpreforming by a mile. Would have been fair If Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ("not neccessary"). And I've had 90mm HEAT non-pen on the tracks of a T34. As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. By Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. I'm also fine with the T30 at 6.7 since it has such a long reload, but the T34 really ought to be 7.0 just because of how ridiculous it is against 5.7s in a downtier. And its mo different than tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce. But like I've said, this is not an issue affecting only Germany. Meanwhile, in the real world, while the Tiger II is waiting for its gun to steady to take a shot, the Centurion Mk3's stabilized gun lets it point precisely at the tiger's turret-face with swift ease. Be always aware of this. Hard cover will always be superior to armor in WT. Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. His portfolio includes five books and several hundred historical articles.". Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. Powered by Invision Community. Theres was no reason to add them for almost every US tanks in War Thunder. The T-80B has ok mobility for it's BR (~25HP/T vs ~27+ for other tanks), but still has terrible reverse of -10kph wheras other tanks can go -30kph or more in reverse. do we not have a tank yet? He will retreat and find a way around you. On the other hand, allied planes get the bomb loads because their cannons/mgs are less effective against German meds and heavies. I wouldn't mind more open maps, though I must admit I still prefer hard cover to range. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. And no I wasn't talking about the swingfire I mean the 7.7 german raketenjagdpanzer 2 literally fires the same missiles as the STRV.81 (which also has a gun) and yet sits a whole BR higher for some reason. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. Just hide behind a hill or a tree and wait till the panther finally arrives, and then shoot that big juicy target in the side (i do that all the time, the best vehicle to kill king tigers is actually the M56 Scorpion). Tried to flank with the Tortoise? In a case of 1535,9 it was established that an individual who suffered particular damage over and above that inflicted upon the general population could maintain a separate action for damages. What do you expect? Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield, One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. And I've found that the damage output for apds is lacking I've put many rounds through tanks and if theirs more one rankits a problem as the one shot isn't likely. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. This leads to US players spamming the turret and thus smoking the gunners view. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. The best editions of doctor oz supplement pills for ed Florus are Duker s, 2 vols. And the stock ammo of the german M48A2C is the same as the US/Chinese M48A1, but somehow the US/Chinese M48A1 is at a higher BR. While light vehicles can rush about in cities, they're balanced in the cities by the same hard cover they benefit from. (Petrol tanks under turret basket magicallyexplode when turret penned). there are people who will likely attack you for not buying into the Germany suffers claims. By You can do just as well with a vehicle that has different strengths if you use those strengths correctly.
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